Episode 001 NICK LIBERATORE: Ten Songs That Made A Drummer

Ten songs can tell the truth faster than a résumé. I sit down with drummer and songwriter Nick Libertore for the very first My Greatest Hits, and we use his handpicked mixtape to map the moments that made him: the basement drum kit that was never off-limits, the records he wore out learning feel, and the artists who quietly rewired his taste.

We start with a personal curveball: “You Are The Sunshine Of My Life,” not the radio version, but a Stevie Wonder cover Nick’s dad played with his band. That sparks a bigger conversation about what a great cover really is, why a good song survives any genre shift, and how respect for the masters becomes fuel instead of pressure. From there we go deep into Pink Floyd’s “Dogs,” the power of concept albums, and how Roger Waters’ writing and David Gilmour’s sound can carry one message with two different kinds of genius.

Nick’s list keeps expanding the frame: Genesis “Supper’s Ready” as the gold standard for progressive rock, Elvis Costello’s “Lipstick Vogue” as proof that two and a half minutes can still feel dangerous, and The Cure as the rare band that can make loneliness sound beautiful. We also get into odd meters, City By C and the leap from Syracuse to Los Angeles, Jellyfish’s kitchen-sink pop production, Smashing Pumpkins and Jimmy Chamberlin’s modern drumming blueprint, and a raw, protective love for Elliott Smith’s “Waltz #1.” We close with Nick’s own song “20 Years” and what he’s building next.

Subscribe for more music interviews and life stories through songs, share this with a friend who makes playlists like they’re diaries, and leave a review if the soundtrack hit you. What’s the one song that explains you better than words?

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Transcript

Welcome To My Greatest Hits

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello, everybody. This is My Greatest Hits. I'm Giovanni Blanco, and this is my guest, Mr. Nick Libertore. The podcast where we get to know somebody a little deeper, a little uh uh go a little bit more extensively through their life, uh through the soundtrack of their life, uh the songs that kind of uh made them or uh were significant in uh and got them here to my humble abode. Welcome, my brother. How are you doing? Thank you, sir. I'm great. Thank you for doing this. Of course. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. The idea is that uh my guests will make uh a mixtape of ten songs, uh, their greatest hits, not necessarily songs that they recorded, even though those can be included, but songs that are just uh um special to them. It's tough to get it down to ten. I can I can't imagine. I can't imagine. We'd we'd uh we'd have uh a thousand songs easily. Let's start right off with uh with your number one.

A Father’s Stevie Wonder Cover

SPEAKER_01 1:14

You are the sunshine of my life by Stevie Wonder, but it's a special version.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

Yeah, it's a version uh that uh my dad played with his band in the 70s. Um my dad was a drummer, um, and he played with a lot of amazing musicians in uh upstate New York and Syracuse. Um you know, as he was playing long before I was here. Um but this is uh one of the awesome covers that they would do all the time, and they kind of did a special version of it, kind of up tempo jazzy type version of it. Uh it it's it's all drums.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah. It's kind of it's it's when I heard it, I was just like, oh okay. Nick would have picked this even if it wasn't his dad.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

It's it's true, it's true. I mean, my dad was definitely you know a big jazz head. Um, you know, his uh his favorite. Uh yeah, Gene Krupa for sure. His favorite was Buddy Rich. Buddy Rich. You know, I mean, definitely had a a bunch of his records, and uh, you know, uh, like I say, but definitely looked up to him and his playing. Um, you know, there was there was a version of uh his West Side Story medley that he did on one of his records. I think it's called Swing a New Big Man, where my dad would uh he'd put the record on and uh and it got to this one point in it where he does this role with just his left hand, you know, and he picked the needle back up and you know, just listen to that. Listen to that, you know. So, you know, I mean I right from the get-go came from a respect of the best, you know. Um and uh, you know, and then you know, these guys and his band, you know, they they were at one time called Prestige, at another time they were called Company. Um, but they did this demo. I think the demo itself uh that this came off of came out in 1980. Um but I mean they had been playing this song for years, I'm sure, since it came out. Um and it was really cool that they kind of did their own version of it. Uh, you know, that's kind of something that I've kept with me, you know, throughout my life of playing is that like, you know, when you're doing a cover, you don't necessarily have to do it exactly the way it was. You know, you can kind of put your own stank on it, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Put your own stank on it. I mean, and and uh and a good song survives like a different cover. It just survives like a different interpretation. If it's if it's a good song, it can actually withstand any sort of genre change or or feel or uh a vibe. Um before we jump to the next song, since you're a drummer, your dad's a drummer, how did this how did drumming come about besides the obvious way? Like, you know, you seeing your dad play?

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Um I mean it was I guess, you know, it I a lot of it was watching my dad play, but he also he had his kit set up in the basement all the time.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

And uh was it a do not touch situation?

SPEAKER_04 4:21

No, no, quite the contrary, actually. Um you know, I uh you know, I I can't remember when I first sat behind it, but uh but at some point I started playing, you know, to you know, all my favorite records, um, you know, and I had one of those old stereos with the giant speakers, you know, and I'd set one on either side of the drum kit and like crank it all the way up, you know, and play along. Uh, you know, and I would play for hours. And I, you know, I've thought about this numerous times where you know, I mean, I would play so much, and not once did I ever get a complaint from the neighbors, you know. Uh, you know, and I mean, like we were like, you know, rural, you know, house-to-house kind of thing, you know, but like nobody ever said, Oh, I mean, my parents would tell me to shut the fuck up after a while. But uh, but you know, I mean, I would play to complete records and you know, literally for just hours and hours and hours until they told me to stop. Uh so you know, yeah. And I mean, this is, you know, I want to say like late elementary school, you know, into you know, middle school and high school until I started playing in my own bands, you know. I mean, I just just loved playing, you know. I think it was in the blood, you know. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, came natural.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, yeah. Uh let's jump to number two.

Pink Floyd And The Pull Of Darkness

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Um one thing, uh, when when uh Nick sent me his list of songs, uh, and and uh he sent a question before he sent the songs, he said, is it okay if they're really long companies? Yeah. I was like, but length length doesn't matter. Um number two is Dogs by Pink Floyd.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Yeah. Pink Floyd was uh the first band that I would say was like my own. Um you know, I was exposed to a lot of music, you know, when I was a young kid through my parents, through my dad playing, you know, and then there was a lot of music just like in the house being played. And I mean, so you know, that was, you know, a lot of like uh Chicago and Blood, Sweat and Tears, you know, Sergio Mendez, uh Al Giro, uh Stevie Wonder, Earth, Wind and Fire, you know, like all that type of stuff. Uh Pink Floyd was the first band that I kind of discovered on my own, you know, and yeah, yeah. I mean, it was certainly not something that my parents were gonna be into, you know. And uh, you know, and there was just something uh about them, like, and I think, you know, Roger Waters especially, like his his voice and his lyrics were just so like dark and ominous, you know, and like dangerous, you know. Um, you know, it was just something that I was drawn to, you know, pretty young. Do you remember what the gateway song or album was? I do remember listening to The Final Cut when I was a kid, and that record, before I even really knew like exactly what he was singing about, just the you know, the the pain and anguish in his voice, you know, I was just drawn to, you know, uh it it just was like really moving. Um, you know, and I uh you know, I don't think that was the first record I I ever heard, but it was the first one that kind of like made me realize like, oh, this is something special, you know. Yeah, yeah. And uh and it was also the first band that uh, you know, and this has carried on forever since then, but it was the first band that I had to have every record. I had to know like everything about and all the solo albums, and like, you know, anything connected to them, you know, I I had to collect, you know. And uh, and that's that's happened ever since any artist I've ever gotten into. It's just like, you know, I'm not satisfied with like just this one song or this one record. It's like, you know, if if something hit me about that artist, like I I have to know everything they've ever done. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know. So it leads to having a lot of CDs or records or whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

But uh it's it for me, it's one of those things that I I you know I got hit with Pink Floyd still living in the States because uh before I moved to Dominican Republic, the the wall was out. So it was so popular on radio that I didn't know the album. R uh I just knew the the song Another Brick in the Wall.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

But um when I moved to Dominican Republic, I had a neighbor, well kind of a neighbor, or somebody who lived in the neighborhood, who was considered like a music freak and he had a bunch of records and they called him the wizard in the neighborhood in Spanish, yeah. Um and he played that album, The Final Cut, uh-huh to me. And I always I was kind of entranced by the theatrics, the sort of like the the drama. Uh-huh.

unknown 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

It's like whoa. And uh you know, nothing compared to the the the stuff on in the wall, right? Like, but but it's still kind of like it's such a stark uh story. And and uh but you know, for uh 13-year-old, 12-year-old hearing it for the first time, yeah. And and being forced to listen to that album, like you this guy was just like, no, you gotta listen to the album, you can't listen to it, it's gotta be the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Um and then living in Dominican Republic, I never got the chance to see Pink Floyd or whatever. But when I moved back to the States in the in the late 80s, one of the first concerts I ever saw was I was just like uh uh Roger Waters came through Connecticut, Hartford, and with Radio Chaos.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Oh wow, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

It was such an amazing show. Yeah. And um I think he had uh Jim Ladd. Jim Ladd was part of it, yeah. Yeah, just Jim Ladd. I was like, oh, like a little DJ booth on stage, and it was this whole thing, and it was just like I I I I fell in love with the whole uh, you know, and of course it's it's so almost low-key compared to a lot of the other uh Pink Floyd productions, but it was such a cool theatrical experience.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yeah. Yeah, I've always I've always been a huge fan of uh of Roger Waters' writing, you know. He just he seems to be able to tap into something, you know, that's just like really deep and moving. And, you know, I mean I know a lot of people know his story and about his father dying in the war and all that type of stuff. And I mean, like, you know, yeah, you carry that stuff throughout your life, you know. Um and uh yeah, like I say, when I was a kid, I you know I didn't even understand all of that yet. But something about the way that he was presenting that was just deeply moving, you know, and uh and yeah, so I took that and then you know went back, you know, all the way to the beginning, the you know, the Sid Barrett era, and uh, you know, and even that story is you know kind of dark and ominous, you know, with him kind of losing his mind and you know getting into his solo records and you know, kind of listening to yeah, Madcap Laughs, and just kind of hearing somebody losing their mind on record is intense, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

It is intense. And I think it left us left a scar on the rest of the band. Absolutely. You know, so before we move on, let's talk about the song itself.

SPEAKER_05 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Because it's kind of uh is it the longest piece of that of no no, it's not. Is the is the the other one we won't get to it, but uh it's it's got a lot of chapters and a lot of things to it. And uh um I was listening to it and one thing struck me that was kind of interesting how he was able to kind of write the bulk of the material for the band, right? Roger Waters. But how he just easily handed off the sort of the singing and the guitar stuff to David Gilmore, and that's the stuff that sonically stays with you. Yeah. So it's kind of like, you know, like in a weird way that emotionally and like spiritually, he's Roger Waters is like the heart behind everything, right? But it's it's odd to me, not odd, but it like cool that he seeded this sort of like, you know, you sell it. This is my message, you sell it. And it's like he only sings like that one part in that whole piece, and then it's all David Gilmore.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

And I mean it's also a lot more acoustic. Like I was kind of uh surprised by the acoustic elements of it, like the the parts that were a little bit more mellow.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

I mean, I guess there there has to be some sort of trust there, you know, when you're writing things that are so personal, you know, that you know, you you trust in the fact that the rest of your band mates are gonna take it and do something that's gonna kind of fulfill that vision. Uh you know, I mean when you've got David Gilmore in the band, of course, that's gonna happen. Um but I mean, yeah, to have somebody who can, as you say, sonically kind of take those words and you know, um and those thoughts and and and represent that in you know in his guitar solos and his guitar tone, you know, all that type of stuff, is uh you know, it's amazing. You know, I mean it's yeah, it's w what luck to have, you know, somebody who you know could write those words and somebody who could, you know, write that type of music. Uh there's a line in that, you know, when I was uh when I was a kid that always stuck out the uh um how's it go? You gotta be trusted by the people that you lie to so that when they turn their backs on you, you get the chance to put the knife in. When I was in high school, I was like, oh man. You know, that's that's definitely a certain outlook. It stays with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

It stays with you. Um This was their tenth album. Sounds about right. Yeah. Um and they were it was just basically between the the the sort of the heyday of of uh The Wall and uh Dark Side, right? So it's like it's in between. It was just like a mixed re received mixed reviews and and and uh not as as strongly as as everything before and after, to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

But yeah. Yeah, it was another grand concept, you know, that idea of the animal farm thing and kind of dividing society into, you know, pigs and sheep and dogs. Uh you know, but uh I thought it worked. I mean it hit me, you know, especially when I was uh younger. But I mean I I do think that's a record that kind of represents them kind of at a height. Yeah. Um I mean you you obviously can't doubt how amazing the wall is, but the wall was definitely when Roger Waters was kind of full force taking over of the of the band.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

And I mean he did something amazing, but it's a it's a common I mean it's and and it's and it's you know, if you have to say it's like the first of their big concepts. Yeah concept albums, right? Like because it's like they've had they they they played with the concepts before or like the idea of it, but I feel like that's the first album that's like, no, this is like this whole thing that's really solid, this thing that's like um and then like it repeated for the few albums after until he left. Yeah. Um I want to say one last thing about this album. I my first visit ever to England when I was younger. I will never forget my first weekend in in uh in London, and I ended up staying at this hotel that was like outside of town and whatever, and it was just like, oh, we were giving you the top floor view, whatever. I'm like, okay, cool, this is awesome. Yeah. And I went to the, you know, it was me and a couple friends, and we went up to the top and whatever, and we looked outside and I said, Jesus Christ, this looks like the animals put like a just like factories and all like dark and gray.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

There's like smoke everywhere. I was just like, wow, this is like this is uh this England.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

Do you know if it was near where they shot it?

SPEAKER_01 17:11

I don't know, but it looked, it just it to me it was just like, you know, especially when you get into London and you see everything and it's like so uh everything in London seems so like compressed together. Like all the there's so many different neighborhoods and areas that are just like very much like New York, I guess, but um but it was weird to get outside a little bit and then see the sort of like all the apartment buildings and all the sort of but it's it was crazy. It's crazy. And like it gave me it gave me like a little sense of where this sort of darkness comes from.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

Yeah, totally. A little bit. I've read a thing about how the you know when they shot the album cover and they had the the pig flying, that uh the the pig actually got away from them and had to be shot down. So there's that.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

All right. So number three.

Genesis And Prog Rock Done Right

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Um number three is let's see. Oh, number three is Supper's ready.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Speaking of long songs, yeah. Um yeah, this one is uh this this one kind of encapsulates a lot of different things and a lot of different loves. Um I I first discovered Genesis actually through um I had an aunt and some cousins who were big Genesis fans. And uh excuse me, uh, you know, they were they fans of like old school Genesis? Old school. Wow. Yeah, yeah, like the 70s Prague stuff. Um, you know, so they were the the ones that kind of first, you know, were like, hey, check out this record, check out this record, you know. Cause I mean I I knew later stuff. I obviously knew Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins solo stuff, you know, but uh but I didn't know that they they all worked together when I was a kid. And uh, you know, and this is definitely when I was still kind of discovering music and what you know what could be done with music, you know, as as a drummer and particularly, you know, you know, when I was playing along to records, because I mean, you know, I was obviously playing along to like you know, the Who and Zeppelin and you know ACDC Yeah, all sorts of like classic rock stuff. But I mean the you know progressive rock stuff was definitely the next level of like I believe that there's a piece in this that's something something in eight, ninth. Yeah, apocalypse and nine-eight.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, oh nine-eighth yeah, yeah. It was like I'm like, oh, they just say it in the title, how fun this is going to be the drum.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Yeah. Uh and I mean, you know, this I mean, I I became a full-fledged like prog rock fanatic. So I mean, I've you know, love Genesis and Yes, and uh, you know, all sorts of infusion too, you know, like Mahavishnu and all that type of stuff, you know, bands that kind of pushed the limits of music uh because it was fun. It was fun to learn and fun to play along to. Um, but Genesis is kind of the big one for me uh for a lot of different reasons. Uh one, as a drummer, I mean, people who don't know Phil Collins as a drummer, I mean, the stuff he was doing in the 70s is insane. I mean, he was hands down one of my absolute favorite drummers. You know, he he stands right up there with like all the the fusion cats, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And uh the greats, too. I mean, it's like he'd seen he never gets mentioned and never gets paired with the you know, with the bottoms of the world.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

It's it's sad because I mean, you know, I mean, I say sad, I mean he's had an amazing career. But I mean the other side of it is but you know the 80s, but right. But I mean, you know, as a you know, as a player, you know, like he was a motherfucker. You know, he was a badass in the 70s, and uh, you know, and I mean you listen to any Genesis record in the 70s, you know, and he also was part of a fusion band called Brand X. I mean, you know, if you don't know anything about that, you know, look up Unorthodox Behavior, look up Morocco and Roll. I mean, those records are mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

A lot edgier as far as like not so uh theatrical as more they're like almost borderline futuristic.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I it's funny too because I've I've seen you know, I've read articles where Phil Collins talks about how he he liked Brand X because Brand X allowed him to kind of stretch out more as a player, which like is so funny to me because you know, in the 70s in Genesis, I mean, like, you know, you couldn't push push music much further than that. But but I know what he's saying is that like, you know, with Genesis. The music was very structured. There was you know parts that you had to play, you know, where Brand X was very improvisational. So, you know, uh, so I get that. But all that to say that I mean Phil Collins was just an amazing, amazing drummer.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Uh, and his feel, there was just something about his feel uh was I mean, and that's and I feel like that's that's uh another thing to say about his drumming, is that I feel like one of those things that he's when he came into the 80s, he had matured that he had kind of laid back in his playing style.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

And that layback of his playing style was kind of like a hard-hitting, like just but groove-based, always like, you know, I mean, he I just think of all those like Hondic songs from the 80s, and it's like they they had crazy drum fills, all of them. And you know, even when they were even in the late 80s, you know, land of confusion and stuff like that. I was just listening to it the other day and just going, you know, this is I know this is like a lot of this is programmed and weird, but it's like there's playing on top of this.

SPEAKER_04 23:07

Yeah. Yeah. And the feel is still there. You know, that's yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean, is is you know, whether he's playing crazy stuff or whether he's you know playing kick snare, kick snare, there's a feel to that that like you know is uncomparable. Um he drives, he drives. So, you know, so there's Phil Collins and then Peter Gabriel to me. Peter Gabriel is one of my favorite artists ever. Uh, you know, from the Genesis era to like all his solo stuff. I mean, he's just an amazing, you know, like uncompromising artist, you know, uncompromising to his vision of things, you know, and all the you know, the different phases and experiments he's done and all that type of stuff. Um, you know, I mean, just brilliant writer, another brilliant lyricist, um, you know, has just done all sorts of amazing work. Uh, you know, and taking it, taking it right back to, you know, the the early Genesis days with the things that he was doing with costumes on stage and I mean I read about the song, um, and this is uh 23 minutes long. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

And uh they said that it was like a one of the first songs or the first pieces that allowed him to go change and come back in different costumes on stage within the song. Yeah. Where before that he would just disappear and come back. But this was how like they they, you know, within the song, he would have, you know, costume changes and and uh um I wanted to ask you a question about the song. You know, like why did you pick this song in particular? And um it was there a specific incident that you remember that that brings you back to this song, or is this just something that you over the years you kind of just always stuck to this one?

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Uh I mean I I think that this song is uh I think this song is probably the best example of progressive rock in the sense of uh you know, a piece of music that, you know, presents itself in a lot of different movements and a lot of different dynamics. Um, you know, I I spent a lot of time as a kid trying to figure out all the things that are going on in that song, you know, and how to play along to it and uh, you know, and the the theatrics in it. Like I feel that Genesis kind of did it best. You know, there was a lot of bands that played in wacky time signatures and did all sorts of wacky stuff that like, you know, was fine, but like wasn't like as heartfelt. Um Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

I mean sometimes it's like some bands you you um I don't know. And I'm bands that I love, I think of like Uriah Heap and other things like this, where for some reason when they got to that level of theatrics, it felt like the theatrics were the thing and not the song. Right. The song got lost or a little bit, or it became it was the kind of stuff that you know inspired Spinal Tap. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's that's what I think. Stonehenge, it's like that's the worst of prog rock. Like basically like, you know, the the not the worst, it's still extremely enjoyable and fun. But it it these guys kind of like just distilled it in a way that the that it it everything was working together. Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

Yeah, it you know, it didn't in my mind it didn't tread on the verge of like silliness, you know. Although there was silliness in it, but it was like silliness for a reason. Um, you know, so I think the the I don't know, the theatricality of it was still um, you know, it's not something where I'm like, oh Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

I can't watch it. No, no, no, no. It seems it seems like it was just the way they had to deliver it. It wasn't like it wasn't a thing, an afterthought. It was like, this is the way it needs to come out.

SPEAKER_04 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

You know, and that's what it feels like. I mean, there's like uh I read something about how there was a section in the song that was supposed to be just a piano solo. And um Peter Gabriel started singing over it. Right. And Tony Banks is like, no, no, no, no. This is my this is the solo part.

SPEAKER_04 27:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

And it wasn't until he went back and like into the control room and heard it with the music what he was doing, and then it was just like, damn, no, this is good. Yeah, you gotta keep this.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

Yeah. Yeah, and Tony Banks is another one. I mean, Tony Banks like is Genesis to me. I mean, uh, you know, the the melodies that he wrote, and I mean he he wrote a lot of lyrics too, you know, very heartfelt lyrics. Uh, you know, the yeah, the things that he did. I mean, I think if you have a great keyboard player, you have a great band.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

You know, uh let's say a great drummer, you have a great band.

SPEAKER_04 28:02

But that that too, for sure. But I mean, if you're if you're going to have a keyboard player, you better be good. I think so. Um But yeah, you know, that that that song, I mean, if if anybody was to say, you know, well, what is progressive rock, I'd give them that song.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

23 minutes of pure Genesis Gold. Yeah. Supper's ready. Uh, there's another thing that I read too that I remembered. Um that a part of it, a section, was inspired by Peter Gabriel's wife. Yeah. That he You should explain it better.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Like it's I you know I I forget the whole story myself, but but the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Like he's she's basically she was like speaking in tongues. Yeah. And like, you know, and and saying all this like devil stuff.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

And he's he saw her face as something different. And the whole the whole idea of the song, you know, it was kind of this like good versus evil kind of thing. Yeah. And uh, you know, and I mean New Testament. So much of that can end up like coming off very ridiculous if if if it's not something that's you know that you're expressing in some kind of pure way. And I think that like Peter Gabriel just had a way of doing that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

No, no, it's it's in it's insane. I mean, it's like the whole story, you know, this this uh uh this couple, this man and a woman, and then they they turn into something else, or to turn into another man and woman, and then they're they encounter uh I mean the the devil along the way. I mean, it's like the 666 part, like the whole thing that he screams the whole 666 thing. Yeah. Um but then in the end is uh the whole thing about the is it a goat that's like eating cereal with like honey and milk, and he's just happy that it's the same amount. It's like the perfect amount of honey and milk in the cereal. It's like really like I like I was reading about this. I was like listening to the lyrics going by.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

I'm just like, what the hell is going on here? Yeah, I mean the the the imagery, you know, again, it's like in anyone else's hands, I think that that that would come off as just like absolutely ridiculous. But there's something about the way Peter Gabriel presents things, you know, where you know his his symbolism and his imagery can be so far out there, and I still can like take it seriously. I know he's saying something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like I know that there's meaning behind what he's saying, even if sometimes I'm just like, what? But like, you know, he's not doing things just to be ridiculous. There's there's a point behind it.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

And it's all cohesive. So I musically, it especially musically, it doesn't sound like it's a different band playing each section. It sounds like it's one band doing everything slightly different for this section, a little breakdown here, we go crazy here, a little timey thing, whatever, piano solo, you know. Yeah. But it's all kind of uh it doesn't, it doesn't ever break. It doesn't ever feel like, oh, this is completely not you know what I mean? It just it feels natural, like a weird, like a whatever. It's like a it works.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

It was uh it was you know, it was another just great formation of people, just incredibly talented people and talented players. And uh, you know, there's they've talked over the years about how kind of when Phil Collins joined the band, he he was kind of the outcast because he was much more loose about things, you know, like the the rest of them were very, you know, kind of proper brought up and you know took themselves very seriously.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

And you know, Phil kind of came in and was just like, hey guys, you know, let's go, rock and roll, you know, but like a little dirty hippie.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

Yeah, yeah, you know, so he kind of like shook it up, but I mean that was the perfect you know, addition to that group. Uh you know, uh yeah, I just think just incredibly talented people, you know, and I I see that with you know Genesis, I see that with yes, like there's so such incredibly talented people individually and then together as a group, because like you know, if you look at those groups, you know, they all went off and did solo records and did other projects, and you know, the the um the the want and need to like continue to express and write new material, you know, it was like you know I I don't see that anymore, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

In the way that not in not in commercial or or necessarily major label released material. Right. You know, yeah, yeah. It wasn't necessarily the most popular thing, but it was definitely like something that these bands toured and and were super popular in on as far as like people wanted to see them by the records and and and they just you know had legacies of releasing these albums after album of you know concept and and it's it they had they had serious runs.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Yeah. I mean it's it's it's amazing to just see somebody be continually, continually creatively inspired to do something. You know. Uh you know, to take it to, you know, all these different angles and everything, but just that idea that they kept writing, you know, to me it's you know, I I wish I had that inspiration to to be writing all the time. You know, it seems like they it just came natural to them. Um so yeah, just a lot of respect to to all those people.

Elvis Costello And Razor Lyrics

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Number four, uh Lipstick Vogue by Eric Elvis Costello and uh I had a friend who had a cassette, it was like a best of Elvis Costello and the Attractions, and it was uh stuff from My Aim is Tree, My Aim is True up to uh Blood and Chocolate. And uh, you know, that was the first time I heard any of his stuff. And I mean, every song, I was just like, ah, this is amazing, amazing, amazing, you know. So as as I went back, you know, the the first real record I I heard was this year's model. Yeah. Um and just what an incredible amphetamine driven, you know, like fucking like incredible band, incredible songs, insanely incredible lyrics. Yeah. Uh yeah. Just what an amazing record. Um, you know, so this is one of like many, many favorites on that record. But I mean, you know, just the the drum intro on that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Uh that's I mean, it's I love this record, and and uh if I had to do like a like an order of my favorites, this would probably be in the middle somewhere. Yeah. But listening to it today again, I was just like, oh yeah. This is why Nick loves this record. It's like it's the most feral drumming on the it's like Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

Pete Thomas, man. I mean he's he's great. Uh you know, I I think he's uh he's very underappreciated in the in the rock world, you know. I mean, I think everybody in that it this is another band together.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Yeah. And the sound that they had, that organ sound, that those the you know, the sort of the the kind of uh put put kind of like very kind of quick on a dime kind of uh you know, but but also economical. You know, they weren't like they weren't songs that were like uh I'll I'll I'll you know I'll I'll play their stay or whatever out, like to stay too long.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

They just quick in and out, you know, but but so much happening, you know, yeah within like two and a half, three minutes, you know. And I mean another prime example too of uh keyboard player, Steve Naive, like you know, starting off with sure like the new wave of the um Wurlitzer, you know, like that sound, you know, which is like hip at the time and everything. But but I mean, if you listen to throughout his whole career, I mean Steve Naive was Elvis Costello's right-hand man. I mean, like everything he did because Elvis, you know, every time he went into a musical genre, he went deep, you know, and like really learned, you know, everything there is to know about a genre and then like spit it back out, which like blows my mind. Like everything from like you know, country and jazz and soul and like you know, all the different things that he's done, when he does it, he does it so well.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

But I think I think uh not to sound too vulgar, but I think that the proper word that you said was there was spit, because it's like he doesn't reinterpret it, it's like it's like he gobbles it up, chews it, and he just spits out chunks of it at a time. Yeah. And what he spits out is just like pure gold, and it's just so uh uh he finds a way to put his take on these things. And it's still kind of like even at his you know, as he gets older and he's uh you know, he kind of uh leans more melodically and he does more sort of beautiful uh things like some of the things that he's done in the last 20 years. It's still kind of very much like these sort of candy bar treats of whatever the thing is, and it's just all messed up. Like the ingredients are all messed up, yeah. But it's just so tasty and so like satisfying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

Yeah. I mean, the you know, like I say, musically speaking, just you know, incredible how how deep he goes into every genre. I mean, lyrically is a whole other story. I mean, I you know, he's he's probably my favorite lyricist. I mean, just like the the double and triple entendres constantly, constantly, you know, all the the double meanings and everything he says is just you know, it's it's cool to write one song where you have you know words that mean different things and all that type of stuff, but he's made a career out of it. He definitely you know, and it's another one of those things where like in someone else's hands, it could be completely silly. But I mean, he's just so brilliant with everything he says, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Also, it's like there's a certain edge to it, like there's a certain um nastiness that's kind of uh you know, it it just uh I feel like there's uh there's angst. There is this sort of there's always like a hint of revenge in this stuff. Yeah, like you know, like a weird kind of like, oh, this sucks, but I'm gonna get back at you kind of vibe. Like it's like a lot of like this one in particular, like I I like I had to bring up the lyrics, but the um I love the first verse is like don't say you love me when it's just a rumor, don't say a word if there's any doubt. Sometimes I think that love is just a tumor. You've got to cut it out.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

It's so good. Damn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

And then the part where he says uh the human part, the way he goes, uh, you know, sometimes I almost feel like a human being. Like being, sometimes I feel almost like a human being. Like I almost feel like a human being. It's such a everyone can relate to that. Oh, yeah. It's just like so um, so deep in your in your darkness, and then like you you just feel like a little bit like sometimes I feel like you know, I'm not all bad.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Yeah. I love the line too cut, like you say, I've got no feelings. This is a good way to kill them.

SPEAKER_05 40:11

That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

So good. Yeah, I mean, and this album, I mean, I I love this album. This album has one of my top three favorite um of us Costello songs. And and it's not necessarily if I had to rank them by like what I think the best are, this wouldn't be in there, but it's one of my favorites because it's one of the ones that I heard as a kid, like really young. When it when this album came out, I had the chance to hear it just by because of a neighbor who played it.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

And I loved this song. Like I'd always like as a kid, like I was like set eight years old, I would always be like, play that song again, play that song again. It was little triggers. Oh, yeah. And it's like I always think that that song kind of like almost like affected me vocally. Oh sings that song. I can hear little triggers.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Oh, totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

I love that. But uh, but moving on, man. This is uh such an interesting list. Number five, um, we go to the cure, I believe, right?

The Cure And Beautiful Loneliness

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Yeah. And number five, where is it? Uh I got it here somewhere. Oh, here we go. From the edge of the deep green sea.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Yeah, this was um, you know, I think a lot of uh a lot of what I was listening for in music when I was younger was specifically tuning into the drums um until I hit a certain age and until uh I had a friend of mine. Uh I was in a band called The Mood Circle uh in middle school, maybe early high school, um with uh with my friend Joel, who I still play with to this day. Um, but our friend Roger from that band uh let me borrow his copy of uh The Cure Wish on cassette. Um and he's like, you've got to listen to this song from the edge of the deep green sea. And uh and I put it on, and that just it just set me off in a different direction when it came to what I was listening to in music. Um you know, there the cure since then has become one of my absolute favorite bands ever. Uh there's there's not another band that I can think of that that sets a tone, that sets a mood, that uh, you know, another like incredible lyricist. Uh you know, everything about them was just like how I felt, what was going on in my head at the time. Um Yeah, I mean it's it's they're just they're just they're just a band set apart, you know, in in my head for for what they convey.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Um They I mean they created a sound. Yeah. They created a sound and a vibe that that only they you know do best. And and uh been a million copycats since and you know um I also feel like they've been able to do different styles of things and still remain kind of like the cure. Like, you know, where they don't they don't feel like they are they're uh aping or or or copying anything. They've just they've been able able to do that. And I also feel like this particular era, like um disintegation wish, like this there.

SPEAKER_04 43:41

It's kind of the the classic era of the band, for sure. Like that lineup of the band was, you know, in my opinion, I think in most people's opinion, is probably the the best lineup of the group. Uh they they perfected the the idea of writing a song where There's a they write kind of simple melodies, but there's like five or six of them stacked on top of each other all the time, you know, that creates this wall of sound that is just it's like a warm blanket, you know. Um and you know, nobody nobody expresses loneliness like Robert Smith. And uh, you know, and that was certainly something I connected to, you know, as a kid growing up, uh which is funny because Robert Smith has been with his high school sweetheart forever. Uh which is an interesting point, I think, that the idea that uh you know, us as artists, you know, we we can still use our A, we can still use our imagination, but B, we can also kind of see and feel what other people are going through as well, you know. And he just he had he had a way of expressing that that I think you know so many people connected to.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Uh what what is it about this song and the cure that makes you feel like um you as a person or your lived experience reflects the most?

SPEAKER_04 45:23

Um I mean there there was there's a lot of longing in uh you know in what he was expressing. Uh and for for a long time, uh when I was younger, I was I don't know not to get depressing, but I was alone for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah, you know, and uh also you know different era, latchkey kids just or being you know parents, both parents worked or whatever or different things, and you're kind of left to your own devices and but I mean I think there's also there's like a beauty in that like longing for you know whatever that is, you know, longing for something better, be that, you know, uh a partner or or a better situation in your life, uh, you know, there's there's a beauty in that and there's a connection in that.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

Um you know, I I've always said that like, you know, I feel that um people who express their sadness or their loneliness or whatever, like there's still hope in that.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

When you still, I mean you're still expressing. You're still when you still express it, you're still like, you know, trying to you're still yearning for a connection. That's like it's when that dies, is when you're yeah, yeah. 100%. 100%. And you don't care.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

Yeah. So, you know, that's you know, it it came at the perfect time for me, you know, where I was feeling certain things, and like I I felt a connection to that, and I felt that they, you know, Robert Smith and band uh expressed that in a way that I connected to, I guess,

Writing Odd Meters In Syracuse

SPEAKER_04 47:11

the most.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Now we go to number six or um first song on side B, if you're flipping the cassette or the album. Um An appointment by the band called C City by C.

SPEAKER_05 47:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

This was uh a band I was in in uh the early 2000s, right before I moved out to LA. Where was it again? Where did you bring up? Uh Syracuse. Syracuse. Syracuse, New York. Um this was a band that kind of evolved out of another band I was in called Anodyne, uh, which uh I guess the last lineup was myself, um Alicia Delios, who's the vocalist and songwriter, uh Sean Grimes, who is the bass player, and then uh in Anodyne we had my friend Ryan Fitzsimmons who played guitar. Um Ryan had uh left to go to school at a certain point, and we kind of kept going and we formed this band called City by C, which uh Anodyne was kind of more kind of straightforward uh type songs. And yeah, I always like to think that uh my progressive influence kind of seeped into Alicia's songwriting because City by C became more uh we had a term for it. We called we called the band Frogmo, which was uh folk progressive emo. Uh because the band was uh it was Alicia playing acoustic and singing, and then Sean on bass, me on drums. Um but Alicia started writing these songs that were, you know, it a lot of like fives and sevens in the way that she strummed, uh which I think just was like a natural thing because we never sat down and were like, you know, we should write something wacky, you know. But uh but uh but the intro of this song is is funny because uh it starts off with a beat that I'm playing that's kind of like a fast seven beat. Uh and a lot of times when I would play with people, you know, they'd be like, oh just play a beat. We'll we'll do something. Uh and and I actually I stole this beat from Phil Collins. You know, it was one of these beats that he would play in in uh you know old school Genesis tunes. But uh but it's it's like a little wacky. It's like you know, so and they're like play a beat. I'm like, do something with this.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

But uh just think of Janet Jackson saying, give me a beat.

SPEAKER_04 50:10

All right, don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Uh actually, you know what? I I I don't want to miss out on something. There was something that I wanted to say about that cure song. Yeah. Because one of the most interesting things that I found out while I was reading about the album The Wish and how they were recording, that I didn't know that Robert Smith, in preparation for each album, he would create mixtapes for the band to listen to and songs that he was obsessed with at the time. Yeah. And that he would like try to want to reach and he would say not to copy the sound, but copy the essence. And for Wish, there were only two songs, and one was a band called Charterhouse. I think it's called Chapter House. Chapter House. And uh and Human by uh by Human League. Oh wow. I'm only Yeah, yeah. He said he was obsessed with that song, and it's just like it's so strange to me because it's like you know, you never know what where people are grabbing things from. But going back to this, to see.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

I'd like to say just because you brought that up and brought up Chapter House, the cure was kind of my my start uh into uh you know bands with that kind of wall of sound. Like I said, there's you know lots of different melodies stacked on top of each other, but you know, that eventually led me to all the the great shoe gaze bands, yeah. You know, stuff like Slow Dive and My Bloody Valentine and Lush and uh you know all that type of stuff. You know, the it started with realizing what the cure did, you know, they created this sound. Like I say, it's just like a warm blanket of sound. Uh, you know, and that alone creates a certain feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Um but I mean, I just I just love that type of music, you know, where it's just this wall of beautiful noise, you know. That's awesome. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

So going back to this song, there's the uh um an appointment. It starts with that crazy drumbeat with and with the guitar kind of going freely above it, like just kind of uh uh swaying and and uh um and then it kind of falls into this area. Like it just falls into this other part where it's just like drops. Yeah. Yeah. Um what was the what was the kind of the thought behind that?

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Uh I mean that I uh I think that's where Alicia originally started the song. Um so it goes from that that kind of crazy fast seven beat into a five. Uh she starts playing the, you know, and uh that a lot of the stuff she was writing then, uh, like I say, you know, there was never kind of a sit-down of like, you know, we're gonna play something wacky. I think that she just kind of started falling into these rhythms that were like, you know, fives and sevens, you know, just the way she would strum the guitar. But I mean, came up with all sorts of cool rhythms and um uh and textures and stuff like that. And I mean, yeah, she was another one that was just like a brilliant lyricist, brilliant voice. Uh but it's funny because to me, you know, the way I the way I always learned, I'm I'm 100% like uh an audio learner, you know. Um so to me it was like learning the the feel of the rhythms, you know, and then like once we learn the song, I could go back and be like, oh, that's in five. You know, yeah, like yeah. But you know, initially coming off of that, like I'm just like you know. Um yeah, like I I learned everything just by by hearing it, and then you know, to go back to it, like I think we were we were kind of all that way where we would, you know. I've heard Soundgarden was the same way, actually, where like you know, they would write these songs in like wacky time signatures, and it was just like, I don't know, that's just what I write, you know. So it wasn't setting out to do anything wacky, it was just what was coming out at the time.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Um when was the song recorded?

SPEAKER_04 54:44

2002, I want to say.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

I was like I got I my first impression of it was it was like a very it reminded me of Jeff Buckley. Like a Grace album. Like it just reminded me of that sort of like where it was uh the guitar playing was this like lush and kind of like but it was just there were these edges to it, like the like the drumming, the the gang the gang, you know, it felt more rock heavy, but her voice and the guitar playing just made it more like angelic, more kind of lush and more um I don't know, prettier.

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Yeah. It always blew my mind because, you know, she would say, you know, and this wasn't always the case, but when I first started working with her, you know, I'd be like, you know, you had like, who are your favorite artists? She's like, I don't really listen to music much. How you how are you coming up with these songs? Like, where's your you know, I mean, that's divine intervention then or something, you know. But um, but yeah, I mean I I always wanted both of them to move out here, or at least on. You know, I tried for a long time to get them to move out here, and you know, they're what was what was 2002, Nick, up to 2002, Nick was hoping that City by C was gonna get a record contract and go on the road, I think. Um it was it was a really uh it was it was kind of a sad thing when I decided to move out here because I really, really loved that band, you know, and uh and I love those people and I really just wanted to keep working with them. Um but I realized at some point that like we all kind of had different things that we wanted to do. And you know, to me, uh, you know, and on top of that, uh as I say, I was playing in a band with Joel. Joel had moved out here before I did, and uh dude, you gotta come out here. I mean, kinda, yeah. Like he called me and he was like, he was like, dude, let's put the band back together. And uh and and at the time, you know, aside from like playing, I was like stocking shelves at a grocery store, you know. I was like, you know, what's the worst that can happen? I'll move out there and lose all my money and I'll go home, you know. And that was stock a grocery store in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Yeah. That's the worst that can happen.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

I mean, that was 21 years ago now. So, you know, and and I've had all sorts of amazing experiences out here. So, you know, it was definitely the right decision.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

So I I believe so, man. It brought it brought you to me, so I'm happy about that.

SPEAKER_04 57:32

Yes, and well, I I want to say too that you know, I've had this thought numerous times, but uh, you know, whenever we're playing, you know, and uh and and doing different projects where we're playing cover songs, like I feel I feel such a kinship to my father, you know, because that's what he did. You know, that's you know, and there's every once in a while there's a song in the set that like he would play too, you know. So I just like you know, I feel that connection and I, you know, I just do love that. And I thank you for that. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it, yeah.

Jellyfish And Maximalist Pop Craft

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Number seven, joining a fan club, jellyfish. Jellyfish, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:20

That uh jellyfish was another revelation, uh, you know, getting into like the the power pop scene.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Um did you did you discover them when they were when they just come out or was it after?

SPEAKER_04 58:36

It was just slightly after, um, you know, because um spilt milk was already out. Um but I had a friend who um who had known about them and uh you know it was jellyfish and Jason Faulkner and uh and the Grays and you know all the all the kind of you know family of you know that started from.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

Oh yeah. Is it a it was something else, right? It was like more of a glam.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Imperial drag, yeah. One of Roger Manning's um uh other projects.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

Just like right after. So it was like right after it was like the Greys, Jason Faulkner, the Imperial Drag, and then a while after like Licorice uh Licorice Quartet.

SPEAKER_04 59:27

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A while after that. Yeah, they were doing that during COVID.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

Um I remember Manning also released those Moog albums.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

Oh yeah, the Moog Cookbook. Moog Cookbook. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I mean they, you know, and then all of it starting from jellyfish, I mean, just blowing my mind. Like, you know, another kind of example of like sound, like all the different things that they were doing. You know, I love a record that is like full of different sounds, you know, and I mean they were just masters of it. You know, I always I always told people that, you know, if if you like a mixture of the Beatles and Queen, you're gonna love jellyfish. I mean, it's it's all the you know, melody and harmony like stacked on top of like, you know, just like all these different things going on. They just threw the kitchen sink into like every song, you know, but in a in a pop structure. They loved pop music.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

I mean, they they respected the idea of like the songcraft of classic pop songs. Yeah. And and and production, you know. Right. And and to have that, you know. I was I remember, I always remember the the the one-two punch of like Lenny Kravitz's first album and Belly Button, like a year after or something like that. I was just like, it just stood out so fucking hard in that landscape of like 1989, 1990, where everything was already like, you know, processed to death, and it was just, you know, production was just shit and whatever. I mean, it wasn't whatever. We sh and there, you know, there was grunge, there was like stuff that's still kind of popping up rock-wise. Right. But it was a new sound. Yeah. This shit sounded like 1978. Right. Or 1971 or whatever, and it's like, and those are the records that we kind of grew up with. So to hear something new, like I'll never forget that. Like the the those two records that Benny Craft's first record and Belly Button. But but then when Spoot Milk came out, it was just like those guys just outdid themselves.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:44

It's true. I mean, I you know, I at first wanted to pull something from Belly Button just because A, that was the original lineup. You know, B, just to mention Jason Faulkner, um, you know, who wasn't on spilt milk, but uh, but yeah, like spilt milk just like up the ante, you know, like every everything they could think of, you know. But it's it's exactly that. It's it's you know, it's the love of pop music in all forms. You know, it was all of yeah, like you say, like the late 70s type of stuff and um, you know, processed through the idea of like modern, you know, times, you know. I mean, they came out of Beatnik Beach. Have you heard the Beatnik Beach record?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

I I know of the band because of the history, but I I never actually actually know I do remember going like out of my way trying to find what that sounded like and being like, uh that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:45

Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, but I mean, you know, that was already Andy and Roger working together.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

Sound, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you could totally hear it. You could see it here. Yeah. They they were definitely uh they were this like, let's blow this pop stam and do our own thing. And it's like they went off and did it for real.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:05

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, those those two and Jason Faulkner, you know, just there's so much brilliance in their writing, you know. And again, you know, another situation where I've just like kind of tried to trace all of them since then. I mean, Jason Faulkner's solo records are amazing, and you know, all the different things Roger Manning has done, and then like, you know, you know, Andy's definitely been a little bit more um, you know, uh, you know, off on his own thing. But I mean, you know, there's um there was a group he produced, uh uh like a Japanese group called Puffy Amiyumi. Puffy Amiyumi, yeah, yeah. Uh who, I mean, that stuff is just like listening to jellyfish. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, it's just so cool. Um that's anime jellyfish. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Um but yeah, I mean, just just brilliant, brilliant songwriters. And uh, you know, I'm and uh you know, the Grays record too, that uh which leads into um what's his name? John Bryan, uh you know, who's another genius genius in and of himself. Uh you know, he uh he continues to play out here at Largo uh monthly. Now I just started doing it again. And I mean, for for years, you know, I would drag anybody who would go with me to to go see him, you know, because I mean he's just like another like can play every instrument, picks up guitar, picks up, you know, keyboard, drums, like everything is just blows my mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was also able to translate the sort of like um in the sort of late 80s to kind of keep the sound of instruments organic, but still sound new. Yeah. Like, you know, the stuff, uh all the like Fiona Apple and the stuff from like Amy Mann and the soundtrack stuff that he did. It's just like all you can hear all the instruments and it's all it sounds all very analog, but it doesn't sound necessarily like old. It sounds like something new, like of the time. It sounds current, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Uh man, we can talk about jellyfish forever, to be honest, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:28

Oh man. I remember us talking a while ago about wanting to do like a tribute show with them, and now there's a band that's doing it. That's right. That's right. On the roadarians. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. I've been I wrote to them a while ago and was like, come to LA. Come on, man. Come to LA.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

I did the same thing, and they were just like, get us a show in LA.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

I was just like, okay, maybe I'll do that. Yeah. Uh we'll open up for you. We'll play we'll we'll play uh uh The Grays and uh And all the all the out uh all the Imperial Drag and all that stuff. Oh yeah. I just I I man, I remember the fr like when I got that record, like the when a CD came out, and it was just like this a bunch of friends of mine and uh and the this crew from Hartford that basically um we just all love music together and whatever, you know. We would shoplift records, whatever, like this is cassettes and whatever, just because we were just like, what, this is a queen record? And it's just like we were all just inner city kids, just like, you know, different backgrounds and you know, whatever, little hippie white kid, uh you know, uh uh jazz kid and black kid and uh the you know Puerto Rican kid who like metal and and that is me. It's like all these, you know, we were all just like getting in high school kids getting in trouble, right? And just doing things. But we loved listening to things together and just like, you know, and had and I remember um even I was like even hanging out with these young people, the because we were so in love with that first record that when we listened to the second album, it was so divisive because like half the crew wanted to hear like the nice, like softer stuff, like that's like you know, just not as like sharply produced as split split milk is. Uh-huh. Like split milk is like a fucking rock record, like it's just like it their sound. I mean, it could it couldn't have gone even bigger, but it they it they just they went huge.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

You know, and uh I just remember you listening to that in the car because it's like we put on and it's like hush, right? It starts with a yeah. It's like we're like with and whatever, and it's like we were we had just listened to a Prince record. His first record called For For You, I think it's called Princess R. He starts it the same way with like weird, like vocal, you so you kind of thing, right? Yeah, maybe it doesn't start it, maybe it's like beginning side beat. I don't know, but uh but anyway, it was just like we were just like, oh my god, that's just like Prince. We did whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

We're like and then it's like it's so queen though.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:17

Oh my god, it's so queen, like right from the vocal. Yeah, club.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

But it's like so also, it's like if Paul McCartney wasn't Queen.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:27

Yeah. No, exactly, exactly. It's like I always say it, they're they're they're the mixture of Beatles and Queen.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

You know, but they have like a weird, also, there's like I hear a lot of who in them sometimes. Yeah. You know, like the sort of like the who, the sort of the ambitious side of the who, where it's like the more melodic when they would be this sort of like, whatever, man, we're going off track again.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:48

I mean, I mean, I mean, you bring up the who. I mean, I, you know, as as bonus, whatever. I mean, I Pete Townsend to me is just another one of the most brilliant, brilliant songwriters ever. And uh somebody else who was uh breaking new ground with music all the time. I mean, I read his uh his autobiography, and you know, and he talks about like building studios and you know, and the keyboards he was using and all these different things.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

I mean, there was like this whole period of time when they just they brought they bought a theater and they were writing and recording live with people coming in and out, like audience people. That was just like, this is our studio, it's a stage, and yeah. And it's like they did that for a year, and I can't remember what album it was, but I was just like Well, that was the the Lifehouse project.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:38

He was trying to try to do Lifehouse.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

And that became Who Are You, right? The songs came uh became uh Who's Next? Who's Next? Who's Next? Who's next or something before you?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:46

I mean, his concept was so grand that like you know not enough people got it at the time. But I mean he was talking about the internet long before the internet existed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the like grid life thing that he was talking about. I mean, he he had that vision long before that existed. I mean, just brilliant minds, brilliant minds. Yeah.

Smashing Pumpkins And Modern Drumming

SPEAKER_04 1:10:10

Sorry, I didn't mean to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

All right, so number eight, geek USA smashing pumpkins. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:19

Uh when I was a kid at this time period, um a lot of basically everything I was listening to was not modern. You know, I was listening to prog rock. I was listening to, you know, um, you know, even the pop stuff I was listening to, I was listening to Billy Joel. I was listening to like, you know, stuff that that started in the 70s or the 60s. Uh, you know, when I was a when even when I was a kid, I was just like, you know, this modern music, you know, like it doesn't compare to, you know, the stuff that happened 20 years ago, whatever. And I had a friend who uh was a huge Smashing Pumpkins fan and was like, you've got to sit down and listen to this record. And uh and I think the only thing that I knew offhand from them at that point was today, the song Today. And uh and which I I love that song now, but but at the time, thinking strictly as a drummer, I was just like, you know, oh that's that song where he keeps going. And he's like, no, you gotta you gotta listen to this record, listen to this drummer. And he sat me down and he put Geek USA on, and I was like, oh damn, like, you know, that's that song like checked all sorts of boxes for me, you know, with the structure being very kind of like proggy, you know, and uh and and I realized what an amazing, amazing drummer Jimmy Chamberlain is. Jimmy Chamberlain became my favorite, you know, modern rock drummer, still is to this day. I mean, he's the guy that like took, you know, and you know, look him up. I mean, he's influenced by all the the fusion greats of the 70s, you know. I mean, just absolutely phenomenal drummer. But but then it kind of exposed me to the the whole band and how how the whole band was, you know, playing all sorts of crazy music and all sorts of dynamic music. Um so yeah, that you know, I think that song kind of like took me into you know current times and music at that time, you know, made me realize that there were bands that were like still doing things that were incredible musically.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:01

Did you ever hear the song that it came out of? Suicide Kiss. No. So it's it was like a they they changed an older song that they had called Suicide Kiss. That's what that's what became Geek USA.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:15

Oh, really? Wow. I don't know. Is there a demo of that out there?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

There is a demo in one of those they uh he released it when he was doing like he had like an internet club for a while that he was like releasing demos and stuff and recordings.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Um and I know that it probably popped up in like one of those kind of off compilations of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:35

But oh cool. I'll have to look that out. Um yeah, I mean I I love the whole band and you know uh yeah, Siam's Dream is amazing. When Melancholy came out, um Joel actually sat me down and was like, he's like, I'm gonna make you say for this, you listen to this record.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

Yeah, I got I got when the day it came out too. It was just like when that came out, I was Double Record. I was like, okay, I'm sold. I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:01

Uh but uh that's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

I remember that day too. That's like a there's a good day. But I I I we are uh uh record retail lifers. So we we have that uh added benefit that we get to hear things um sometimes before they even come out. You know, like demo, like advanced copies or whatever. And I remember back in the day um discovering the first album, uh Smashing Pumpkins. Yeah, thinking Ooh. There's something about the the it was different, you know, because uh at the time, you know, there was already Nirvana, there's Mud Honey, there was like uh the sort of idea of this sort of uh uh even Soundgarden, which I think that that was the closest thing that they sounded to me like at the time. Yeah. Um was almost like unpolished compared to what they had already sounded like on their first record. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:03

And it was just like very, you know, but they had a they had a sound, and uh I remember when I first I my friends who loved Smashing Pumpkins, they would play Gish, and my first impression of it was just like, it's so bass heavy.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:20

Why is it so bass heavy?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:22

Like, you know, the bass is so like you know, and you know, I I say it lovingly now, because you know, now it I love that record, and you know, like once once I finally got it, yeah, I went back and listened to those songs, and you know, and again, you know, my love for Jimmy Chamberlain, you know, you listen to Windowpane, the end of Windowpane, where he does this roll thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:46

Yeah, it's funny because he kind of like he always when I f this is gonna sound like off, and it's probably not gonna even make sense to to you as a drummer, you'd be like, nah, he sounds nothing like nothing like that. He always reminded me of uh Jimi Hendrix's drummer.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:00

Mitch Mitchell, yeah. Mitch Mitchell.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

Like he had a more of a looseness, kind of like, but still, but hard-hitting Mitch Mitchell.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:08

100%. 100%. I mean, I I get that because like I think Mitch is like a jazzy drummer, yeah, you know, and Jimmy's definitely, you know, uh comes from like I know he loved Tony Williams, um, you know, definitely jazzy fusion-y. I mean, he's got a you know, single stroke roll that'll just blow your damn mind, you know. Um he's got his own project, uh the Jimmy Chamberlain Complex, uh, that I got to see a couple times out here, which is you know, straight like jazz fusion type stuff. And uh it's just yeah, just phenomenal. Um, but yeah, I mean I I I credit, you know, my friend in the Smashing Pumpkins that kind of like brought me to current music at the time, you know. Um, you know, I mean I was an old man then, like I say, saying that like, you know, there's there's nothing good in modern music, you know, like all this stuff. You grunge kids. I was proven wrong, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:06

But uh do you just to kind of uh do an alternate thing, do you remember ever or recall something where somebody sat you down and said, you gotta listen to this? And you're like, no. Like after listening to it, you were like, uh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:21

Oh

The Music You Just Don’t Get

SPEAKER_04 1:17:22

man. I mean, I'm sure that's happened. I'm I'm a hundred percent sure that's happened. Uh can I think of one right now?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:30

Um without offending anybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:34

Uh well, I will say this. Uh I had friends who were fans of certain bands back in the day that I didn't get and still don't get. Um I had friends who were big into the Smiths. And I know that the Smiths and the Cure always get mentioned in the same sentence. And and I don't see that at all. You know. Sorry. Um but uh take it's uh I mean I I think Johnny Marr is awesome, you know. Um but uh yeah, like I just I just never got Morrissey. It's just a personal thing. I don't, you know. Um I thought I always I'll say this again, and like feel free to troll me on the internet, but uh but I always thought that his lyrics were like a joke that I didn't get. Yeah, yeah, you know, like I just thought that like he was saying on some silly things, and like it didn't, I don't know, it didn't hit me. Didn't hit me, you know, and I know that like music is a hundred percent subjective, you know, it's it's all it all comes from your own personal experience. Um, you know, uh talking about my dad again, my dad used to say sometimes that, you know, you know, there's good music and bad music. And I was like, I don't know what the fuck you mean by that, you know. Like there's music that that you understand, there's music that makes you feel, and there's music that doesn't. And like that is completely individual. Yeah. You know, so I I I can't bring myself to say that. Um, but yeah, I guess to answer your question again, you know, yeah, the Smiths are one that like, you know, I definitely had friends who were like, you know, you gotta listen to The Queen Is Dead. And I did, and I was like, all right. Grateful Dead. Yeah. Grateful Dead's another one where I was, you know, like I have friends to this day, you know, who keep trying to get me to.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:31

And I, you know, I've come around to both bands a little bit. I mean, to both uh quite a bit, but still not like to the point where I'm like buying all their records. Yeah. You know, um, like I for me, the Smiths was something I just always remember it, like in high school, it was something that, you know, that and this is gonna sound so like dumb and whatever, but I just remember like cool girls liking it. And me going, like, I'm gonna listen to this if I want to be with the cool girl. Like, hey, like, hey, look, I knew about the Smiths. Hey, I like this. And I was just like, I don't get it at all. Yeah. Not at all. And in fact, what happened is that when they broke up, I kind of dug some of the solo Morrissey stuff. Yeah. And I was just like, okay, well, maybe I should go back and listen to it. Never did. Yeah. Until I moved to LA. And uh, and one of my first um the first party I ever went to in LA was like a culture shock. Like the first weekend I was in Los Angeles. Um the the first day I was in LA, I auditioned or like I reached out to a bunch of bands that had things in the recycler back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:45

Old timers.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:46

Uh there's a newspaper that had like a weekly thing that had uh ads and stuff. But uh they had a thing, uh whatever bunch of bands asking for I found one, it was like a Latin rock band. And uh whatever they said, you know, just come and pick up the tape. We won't we don't audition, just if you like the tape, you know, uh reach out to us again. Yeah and I did, and I said, I'll really dig it, whatever, blah, blah. And they and they said, well, you know, two of the guys in the band are playing a private party at Hacienda Heights or whatever. And I'm like, I I was my it was my first day in LA. I'm just like, Hasenda, it was like whatever. It was like another it felt like a million hours away, but it was only like a 40-minute drive. Went to this party and it was like in the middle of like, you know, uh uh it was Hacienda Heights, it was cool, whatever. But you know, uh there were like low riders in the street. I'm like, this is a culture shock for me. I'm like, whoa, what this is crazy. See, I've only seen this in movies and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm Latino, so I'm like, it's not like I'm like, oh my god, this is it was just kind of a different thing. And you know, cats with the like buttoned-up shirt, shaped heads, and bandanas and whatever. I'm just like, whoa. And I knew that these guys played rock, so I was just like, okay, whatever. They're playing a backyard party. I'm like, oh, whatever, show up. Yeah. Show up, and it's the same thing. It's just like it seemed like a, you know, like a Dr. Dre video or something. It was all kind of crazy, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:08

And I'll never forget this. I'm in the kitchen, people, it's packed, whatever. I'm getting a drink, and I hear in the backyard, the I had missed the band. They'd stopped playing. I missed the last songs. I just went to go get a drink. And the DJ, some guy was like, I'm talking about mic, and he was just like, All right, you motherfuckers, you ready to get down? We're gonna go crazy right now, it's gonna blow up, blah, blah, blah. It's just like they had the fucking sounds of like, what the hell? And I'm just like, okay, whatever, what's gonna happen? What are they gonna play? And it's just like it's gonna fucking be like, you know, whatever, Tupac or something. I don't know, whatever. It was that era, and it was like, how soon is now? Oh yeah. And it's like the fucking backyard just fucking got like everyone went into the backyard. Cats, like, you know, cholos and all whatever. I was just like, it was like, I'm just like, I am an East Coast kid. My mind is like going, yeah, you know, and that's when I knew I was gonna stay in LA. But that was just like for me, that was like a a big uh I I that's a uh man. I and I thank you, uh Morrissey and Johnny Maher.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:21

I mean, musically, I that song is amazing. I kept thinking, like the entire time you're telling this story, I'm like, what song is it gonna be? What song is they gonna play?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:29

Like, all right, you motherfuckers, you ready to go?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:31

Girlfriend in a coma.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:35

I was expecting like this heavy meat or something, like you know, whatever. And it's like, I'm like, what? And it's like dance floor is empty within seconds, pack, and everyone's just like, you know, I'm like, whoa. Yeah, man. But that's the power of this stuff, and and uh, you know, it hits it definitely hits a lot of people for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:01

You know, it just didn't hit me.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:06

So glad I asked that. So now we're at no

Elliott Smith And Private Truths

SPEAKER_01 1:24:10

now. We're at song number nine on my greatest hits, on your greatest hits here. And um when uh I asked you to do this, I kind of uh expected a few things in advance. I knew that there would be a a prog rock element. Um and uh I also suspected that there would be an Elliot Smith song. Umly because uh we've never had a conversation about Elliot Smith uh or what he means to you. But I've heard you talk to two other people on different occasions about Elliot Smith. And I was just like, damn, this motherfucker likes Elliot Smith. So Walt's number one off of XO, why this song, why Elliot Smith? Uh I mean this And last thing I'm gonna say, I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah, yeah. These the my greatest hits, these this podcast, it's it's it's uh you're presenting like a mixtape for me of of these songs, and inadvertently the order that you put them in, um even though you didn't know that I was asking you to do that specifically, to me, it it plays off as a mixtape you made, especially for me, to find out more about you. And the order of these songs I found was really nice. Like it was kind of paced in a way that let me see certain things. And I love that this is the second to last song. There's like something about that that's like really kind of uh um telling.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:48

It's uh yeah. I mean the list I made was semi-chronological as far as the things that I discovered. Um but uh yeah, like Elliot uh I can't claim that like I I knew of him right from the beginning of his career. Um but uh but when I did kind of find his work, uh the the thing that the thing about Elliot Smith is that it's so his work is so intimate, it's so personal, uh that it's like it's like I almost don't want to talk about him. It's it's really like it's one of those things where it's like, you know, it's it's it's like if you know you know, and if you don't know, I don't want to hear about it. Like like if you if you don't get it, like go over there. Like it's so personal. You know what I mean? Like it's so like he's just like it's it's like almost like thoughts from my own brain coming out, you know, in a much more, you know, eloquent way, you know, and then you know, he's taking thoughts and experiences that are uh, you know, in some ways very sad, in some ways very crude, you know, uh, you know, speaking of addiction and loss and longing and all that type of stuff, but but he's wrapping it in these unbelievably beautiful um chords and words. Uh, you know, he's taking so many things that are tragic and making these beautiful compositions out of them. Um know, I there's just something about that, like it's it's almost hard to put into words that idea of the you know that he's taking he's taking things that are you know almost kind of like dirty and gross sometimes and wrapping them in these like amazing beautiful like voicings on guitar like these jazzy you know like you know I I know that anybody who knows him knows that like he was an incredible guitar player uh but but yeah there's just there's just something about that idea of like taking things that are kind of you know when you're at the the worst in your life you know and turning that into something so beautiful it's it's just like it's it's such an intimate experience that like yeah it's like you either you either get it and you know and if you don't know and you don't have anything good to say about it just like go over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:03

Like I you know what I'm saying? I I I get it I get it 100% I I mean I have like three specific things to say about that like one of them is like I I came to LA in the late 90s at a time when he was kind of in the circuit like he was Did you see him? I saw him once oh my god I want to say it was at at El Cid Okay in Hollywood I want to say that I don't remember exactly where it was um but it was one of those things that I saw him um and it was after the like he had already kind of achieved some sort of notoriety and he like basically came back to like game and like played like another small joint whatever and just like oh my God whatever you got we gotta go see him. My thing to him it was just like it was one of those things to me it's like if I something's too overhyped I'm instantly allergic to it. Yeah. So I couldn't like I couldn't even you know whatever I'm like no no no until I heard his voice. It was one of those things that I got kind of I had heard things just in a distance this the second I sat down and listened to him it was just kind of like somebody said hey man try heroin for the first time it was like nah man I was like wait a minute um and uh the way I describe his music or his his songs um to me it's like there's two things that I describe and one of them is kind of morbid and and would probably um hurts people mentally because it's delicate but I'll I'll say the nice one first it's like if if you ever wanted to tell yourself a secret yeah like like you know how like somebody tells you like if you ever like that it's like listening to his songs is actually like you giving yourself the gift of you telling yourself a secret. Because it's like that's beautiful. I love that I love that. You know that it's like it's a whisper but it's such a fucking intense and deep emotion. Yes that but it's just like hey it's just like that's how to me his songs feel like 100% 100% yeah you know but in the most messed up times and I'm not saying that that they're they correlate to actual times when this has happened but I feel like his um you know when you're at your darkest moments and and and sometimes you whatever holds you back from doing something stupid or doing something extreme um it could be just a thought or somebody that comes to mind or whatever. And sometimes if it's ever a voice it's his voice. Yeah you know it's that sort of like like like a like a plea like I understand right exactly where you are yep you know I mean but it's like an angel telling you like hey yeah like it's okay to feel this I love that I love that I you you put it much more eloquently than I did.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:07

I mean that's that's that's exactly you know that's exactly what it is and and I guess that's why I say it's like you either understand that or you don't yeah yeah you know and it's because that's so intimate because that's so personal it's like you know it's like yeah you either understand that or if you have criticism then you don't you don't get it. You don't get it. Go stand over there. You know like that's that's how I feel about Elliot and that's how I think most people feel about Elliot.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:45

I think it's it's also the the delivery system. You know um at the time it was uh it was there seemed to be like a popularity of like people uh male singers who were like soft voiced and you know a little you know whatever I think of like Jack Johnson or whatever like stuff like that. You know like um and I was kind of like allergic to that like just like uh Nima singers who can sing. Or like or or can be like gruff or whatever. Like I don't kind of thing. But it's like um there's a lot of talk and like people talk about self-improvement and all this stuff and not about like how can you do better in life and whatever. They always talk about alignment like like you just you have to get aligned with the right energy. And his I find that his voice is always like aligned. It's like singing like the perfect it's like it where the angel voices. It's like I don't know how he does that and and uh especially knowing the darkness behind it. Right. You know but it's like I've never ever you know um whatever I mean it's like I think of him and I think of like in a weird way it doesn't sound like him at all but I think of like I think of Nick Drake I think of Sid Barrett I think of like yeah yeah Katsu was just like yeah just hitting some deeper self-conscious subconscious thing that it was just like I don't know that it doesn't always have to be a scream.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:23

Exactly that's the thing is that like you know pain doesn't always have to be a scream you know there's you know there's people that can express the pain and the darkness in such a beautiful way. Yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean you know and and also that the the the fact that like darkness doesn't always have to be so basic and gritty. You know like I that's it's one of the things that I find amazing with him is the fact that you know there's there's incredible talent and beauty in what he's playing.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:04

It's you know it's why you don't hear you've heard the phrase darkness there's darkness in light. Yeah. He's like the epitome of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:12

Yeah. You know and I mean it's it's why you don't hear people covering his songs a lot is because the shit that he's playing is so difficult. Yeah yeah yeah you know uh you know yeah there's there's incredible talent and complexity you know in what he's doing and you know and I mean there's something to be said about that you know the complexity and darkness you know as well as light.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:42

So it's it's also he's like his it's like his uh the elements of what makes him are not easily uh you can't easily like cut cut it apart and have like oh and this is this part and this is this is like his guitar playing this is his these are his vocals his stuff is so like like this and that's why like the whole thing with people who do covers of his songs or whatever it's like it's kind of um you know and I and I I don't want to mean this in any like negative way about his songs. It's almost like nobody else can do them. I feel that way a hundred percent you know I mean so it's like it's it's not like something like I feel like I have I've sunk strong theories about songs like a like a great song anybody can do it and this it's hard to make it be like horrible kind of thing. Right. The opposite is like he just embodies what the songs are so much and it's like so much of him through it that it's like they're like that if you look on a piece of paper you hear see the chords or whatever you'd be like yeah I don't get it I don't you know or whatever and it's like you hear him it's like it's whatever I was just like I when you walked uh um Nick walked in and I've been going through all the songs and I he walked in on my seventh listen of walks and uh and I was completely just um one thing I forgot about that the It's a fucking piano song. Yeah you know what I mean and hit a lot of it's not it's just like the sort of the the more the guitar, the goo sticky thing I think you know and and uh this song was just play piano just as amazing as playing guitar too. So it's that's what makes me think it's like oh you know like we lost him too soon. Like he could have been doing like even bigger, more orchestral things like like big, big just to hear that sort of like you know the sort of like uh uh the I don't know the sort of the city or the sort of uh uh a kingdom that is an entire orchestra with this one so light in the middle.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:01

You know I would have loved to see to hear that.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:03

I mean I know that there were some things that he released that had like more thanks to it but like this one like this one but it's still kind of uh he's he's the only artist that uh that you know even when it comes to somebody else playing his music like my opinion is don't touch it don't let it be like seriously though like he's he's the only artist that like he's the only artist too that by the way like uh I've got the the open mic happens every Wednesday yeah yeah once every six months or once every like four or five months somebody will cover Elliot Smith song yeah I don't recognize it I won't fucking recognize it's like it's like I won't like it'd be like oh okay you know there's like two or three songs that were played on you know all of the indie radio stations in town and and stuff that was on soundtracks that were kind of like familiar stuff and but in general it's like when I hear somebody else play it it's like another language like I don't I don't recognize the song at all. Yeah because I'm I don't recognize his stuff by frankly by the way it sounds it's just because they're probably not playing it the way he did that's exactly the thing is that like he's doing such like intricate things is that like you know you you can play his songs you know like a fucking harp.

A Duet Song And What’s Next

SPEAKER_01 1:39:31

Yeah yeah it's like it's true it's true it's true I mean just such a uniquely amazing artist and now we're at the end of the mixtape that is my greatest hits of Nick Libertor and we are at Al M L P the song 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:56

Yeah uh yeah a song that uh that I wrote that has uh it's one of the one of the very first songs that I wrote and I mean I'm you know I'm certainly known uh mainly as a drummer um but I've messed around for a while writing songs and uh um you know LNMP gave me a chance to uh put some of those out into the world and uh this is one of them uh that we recorded for a record called uh the Sound That Thursday built which is still available out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:38

Um what what's the what's the meaning behind that the Sound that Thursday the Sounds that Thursday built?

SPEAKER_04 1:40:44

The the name of the record um so that came out of uh so we were the house manned at this place out here called uh Unknown Theater uh for quite a while and uh we were the houseman on Thursday nights and uh Unknown Theater and uh Chris Kovics uh the the person that ran Unknown Theater kind of gave us the opportunity to uh play and kind of uh build build our um build our crowd and build kind of like what we were doing as a band at the time uh and uh this was definitely one of the songs that we played all the time and I wrote this song as as a duet um and there's been lots of different versions of this song recorded uh I did one with Alicia from City by Sea and Anadine um and and I've had uh a lot of different incredible artists sing it with me uh my wife Michelle McGregor has sung it at uh at European Mike night um the this one in particular uh on the record was uh sung by Sydney Robinson who was an amazing amazing singer um uh I haven't seen much of her recently like I hope she's still out there performing uh but she was another performer at Unknown Theater at the time and uh and you know I asked if she would be a part of uh of this record when we were recording and and luckily she said yes uh but uh but yeah I mean this song has existed for quite a long time and like uh Joel actually joked with me about like doing something called you know 20 years of 20 years when it hit the 20 year mark I mean it's it's it's a pretty old song at this point but uh but it's continued to evolve in the in the way that it's it's done. Um so uh you know this is you know I guess what is this song about uh what like or what inspired you to write it it was a uh I guess kind of a a breakup song uh of sorts um uh kind of the idea of uh I wrote it when I was 20 years old and uh somebody who I was with at that time and uh you know there's a You know who you are there's uh there's a line called you know we seem to have found ourselves with 20 years too late uh you know it's kind of the idea of um you know we both kind of want different things and the realization of that um but uh but it was the it was the first thing that I wrote where like you know I could kind of like put both perspectives in at least vocally which I thought was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:06

Um it's a nice it's a nice surprise to hear that like it like I was listening to the song and I'm just like okay cool and then you know I really dig it so really beautiful. And she comes in and then it's like it's like somebody opened a door and like a different light comes in.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:24

It's brilliant. It's brilliant. I mean I you know like I say I mean I was very happy that she said yes to to doing that because you know it it definitely takes the song to a a different level um you know and I've been really really blessed to to do the song with a lot of different uh amazing vocalists uh you know I did it with Aaron at uh at one of the open mics so I mean that was fantastic um but yeah I mean I've you know I've messed around with writing songs for a long time uh you know but as I say I've you know I'm I'm much more of a drummer than a guitar player than I'll ever be. But I finally finally started working on a record of my own. So you know I'm I'm working on some new material that hopefully will come out at the end of the year uh you know and kind of put a new light on on me as far as what I do musically uh so you know this this you know until the new stuff comes out is kind of the probably the thing that I'm most proud of that I've written personally.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:40

It's a beautiful song and uh I think that uh it still holds today you know your 20 year old self would be shocked and surprised and proud and happy well thank you I appreciate that yeah I mean it's uh you know that writing songs is definitely a thing that like to me is completely you know the the ability to do that is is otherworldly to me you know uh playing drums is is a thing that I've done for so long it's a thing that I've practiced and worked at and you know that like I can um you know I can talk more about what I'm doing when I'm doing it but as far as writing songs putting chords together you know finding melodies all that type of stuff you know like I don't have any formal teaching behind that you know so just just an entire lifetime of listening to music yeah yeah it's it's true it's true I you know I always look at it oh I know nothing about music it's like it's like saying you've read like a gazillion books it's like you might have not gone to college for it but you kind of did the work.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:59

So it's like Well I appreciate that I appreciate that because yeah I mean I always look at it as that like I'm not an experienced let me take it back.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:08

Yeah listening is one thing but you played a lot of music in your life a lot of different kinds of music in a different part of your brain than just like taking it in. It's like when you have to learn it to play, you understand the songs differently. You see the songs not to say in the same exact light as this songwriter, producer or whatever intended you see them in a way that like how they work. Mm-hmm and or how they work for you. And it's a different it's a different part of your brain and heart than just letting the emotion or the feeling of it hit you. It's like when you have to create that feeling you understand oh I get what this song is or I understand or at least you you you get a little closer to that and that's that's our school.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:04

Yeah yes we got PhDs baby it's true it's true look at all this stuff these are our books right here all from a library that I have not returned them to overdue fees.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:26

Well thank you so much man thank you so much for being a part of this this is the inaugural uh the the very first episode of my greatest hits uh having predictions super fun super fun thank you thank you for for um thank you for like uh this will probably be officially the longest one but I do but uh I'll make sure that all these songs are available for people who listen to and and and I'll place it somewhere online so people can check it out um and uh it will be wherever this is the information will be with wherever this is wherever this lives thank you again man thank you for sharing um all this beautiful music and your and stories from your life thank you for having me very much appreciate it and thank you for watching see you the next one